The Logic Lifeline

A logical approach to sorting out world events. Where logic, opinion and speculation are combined to produce a reasoned, but entertaining reading experience. The unofficial hometown conservative blog of Woodridge, Il

Monday, May 29, 2006

Murtha spanked by fellow Marines who want to give their fellows the benefit of the doubt

There are several stories this weekend that really cut to the bone against John Murtha's recent disloyalty against members of the US Marine. Murtha wore the Marine uniform and served his country. For that I honor him. For his leap to believe allegations against Marines for purposefully killing innocent Iraqi civilians in Haditha before the evidence is clearly in, I could not have more disdain.

The first article from Reuters shows the approach to the allegations as they should be handled. The man handing Murtha an example on a platter is the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace. Apparantly, this accusation of events from last November only reached the Pentagon on Feb 10 this year. Pace spent a fair amount of time explaining that they do not know why there was such a delay and that both the delay and accusations are under investigation. Pace honors the US Marines by pronouncing they are waiting until the investigation is complete to cast judgement AND to point out how honorable the service of the Marines in Iraq has been:

"I don't suspect anything," Pace said. "I want to wait for the investigation. We will find out what happened and we will make it public, but to speculate right now wouldn't do anyone any good."

Pace, the first Marine to serve as chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said "99.9 percent" of US soldiers in Iraq were conducting themselves with honor and courage.

Now that is a class act and an honor to those who have put their life on the line. Murtha seems to think that his former Marine service is a free ticket to dishonor the Corp. with unproven accusations from incomplete investigations.

The next Marine to step up to the plate is Sen. John Warner, a former Marine and the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Here is the NewsMax coverage of John Warner's take on the situation:

Asked about Murtha's claim that Marines executed residents of the village of Haditha "in cold blood," Sen. Warner told ABC's "This Week":

"At this time, particularly on Memorial Day . . . I think we should be calm and reassuring to the American people that the men and women of our armed forces are admirably and professionally conducting their heavy responsibilities."

The top Republican said: "I respect my friend, John Murtha. I also was privileged to wear the Marine uniform. But we've got to let the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the investigation system, proceed before we reach any conclusions on this matter."

Finally, a third Marine brings his own experiences of accusation to the table. The Washington Post brings us the exact words of U.S. Marine Illario Pantano, who was actually falsely charged with dishonorable actions on the battle field. In his piece Mr. Murtha's Rush to Judgement the entire piece is packed with a powerful perspective, so here are his words in their entirety:

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq. My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me ["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].

So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20]. Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence. The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report.

Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this." Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes.

Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times. Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

We have heard ad nauseum of Murtha's Marine service and this somehow disqualifies us from criticizing his irresponsible actions. I have presented the words of 3 Marines who have both served honorably and continue to honor their fellow Marines with the benefit of the doubt until the facts are in. I have repeatedly stated, this is not about whether the events of the accusations took place. If they are proven to have happened, the participants will and should be punished. The main point is that until that verdict is reached, a loyal American will back up our soldiers. If the charges end up being bogus as in Illario Pantano's case, these Marines should know that we stood behind them the whole time.

Of course if some are willing to spit on the service of the Marine Corp. as a whole to score cheap political points, then new lows have truly been sunk to. On this Memorial Day, the Logic Lifeline stands behind our soldiers.


  • At 10:01 PM, Blogger SkyePuppy said…

    Excellent post. By his readiness to condemn these Marines without evidence, Murtha reveals his eagerness to spit on the honor of the Marine Corps.

    It's a shame he has forgotten what he once stood for and fought for.

  • At 8:57 AM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    Thanks SkyePuppy. Murtha truly has spit on the Marine Corps by proclaiming on Memorial Day Weekend that this yet to be proven incident is "worse than Abu Graibh"

    If this story proves to be true, we can expect the liberals to jump all over and proclaim Murtha was right. He will still be wrong for proclaiming their guilt before proof.

  • At 10:32 AM, Anonymous who would jesus kill? said…

    You're right. This is all too horrifying. Let's go back to the original story from the Marines that an IED killed all these people. Much better.

    I don't want to know if we're losing the battle for hearts and minds. Iraq is a success.

    Nope. Can't do it.

    skyepuppy, unlike you and AICS and the newsmax/malkin commentators, Murtha had been speaking with officials within the Marine Corps and he didn't speak until he knew something from the inside. You do not know that Murtha does not have evidence or proof. Senior commanders said Murtha is "coming from a position of knowledge." reported FOX News on May19. Reality and truth are daunting, but you're best served by it.

    It's a shame he has forgotten what he once stood for and fought for.

    What Murtha fought for, stood for and continues to stand for to this day is an America and its military that can proudly hold its head high because we adhere to the Geneva Conventions, we believe in human civil rights and the codes of truth, honor and integrity.

  • At 11:24 AM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    Even if Murtha has inside information during this phase of the investigation, again the investigation is not complete. Even if it is only officially incomplete, it speaks volumes against this man's character that he could not wait until the official release until he started speaking against Marines in uniform. He could not even wait until after Memorial Day Weekend. Like a kid in a candy shop with A.D.D. he could not resist going in front of the cameras to be the first to talk about it.

    Sorry, you just can't spin this one to be OK. Murtha has shown himself to be a slug here and nothing can make it look all right. But please do continue to spin. Just don't get too dizzy.

  • At 4:57 PM, Anonymous who would jesus kill? said…

    Scott McLellan, the former official White House mouthpiece, said that Rove had absolutely nothing to do with the Plame leak either, but he didn't bother to shut up before the investigation was done, did he? I can't find anywhere in your posts that you were bothered by that bit of speaking up before the investigation was complete.

    Nobody can spin any of this to be OK, least of all you and those running cover for this hateful war. Your hissy fit about Murtha is empty when you put it up against the fact that for the last 6 months, the Marines and the Pentagon have been spinning this, telling lies about it and trying to cover this up. You're totally silent about that, the original spin on this matter. Why are you silent about that?

    It's informative to know that you can be so outraged about Murtha's statements while registering zero concern about our troops murdering unarmed civilians, women and children. Shot at close range. Some shot in the back.

    Yeah, that's some real nice faith-based American freedom for ya.

  • At 8:55 AM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    Not sure where you are going with that Rove point. My premise is that our military people deserve the benefit of the doubt until the investigation is complete. Rove has nothing to do with the military.

    Also, if people want to defend themselves or somebody else before an investigation is complete knowing the media will not shut up during that time period, what is wrong with that? I still don't see what it has to do with what I'm talking about.

    It's informative to know that you can be so outraged about Murtha's statements while registering zero concern about our troops murdering unarmed civilians, women and children. Shot at close range. Some shot in the back.

    I guess this whiffed over your head, but since I am giving the soldiers the benefit of the doubt until the accusations are proven, I have nothing to get outraged about. At this point in time I do not know it to be true. I guess innocent until proven guilty is a hard concept for liberals to grasp.

  • At 8:59 AM, Anonymous r2w said…


    McClellan's statements didn't proclaim anyone guilty before the facts were in. I imagine AICS didn't comment on McClellan's statements because he didn't want to waste his time on a non-story like the entire media seemed to be doing.

  • At 5:05 PM, Anonymous who would jesus kill? said…

    I guess innocent until proven guilty is a hard concept for liberals to grasp.

    Too bad all the chickenhawks didn't feel so strongly about this whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept during the whole rush to invade Iraq. Even until this day, Iraq has not been proven guilty.

    You two can continue burying your heads in the sand. When you choose to ignore even the reporting of FOX News and the Pentagon, there's obviously nothing more to be said to you.

  • At 6:24 PM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    WWJK, come on you set this one up too easily. I almost feel guilty taking the spike.

    Too bad all the chickenhawks didn't feel so strongly about this whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept during the whole rush to invade Iraq. Even until this day, Iraq has not been proven guilty.

    So the bottom line of what you are saying is that Saddam Hussein deserved the benefit of the doubt that he had no WMD and had no plans to rebuild a WMD program after the sanctions were dropped; but our US marines do not deserve the benefit of the doubt on Haditha.

    You think Saddam deserves to be treated as innocent until proven guilty, but our US marines should be treated as guilty even before being proven so, just because Murtha says so.

    You are correct. If that is your way of thinking, we don't have much to say to each other that would be fruitful. However, all are welcome here to comment as they see fit regardless of the vast differences between us.

  • At 6:01 AM, Blogger LASunsett said…

    Murtha is banking heavily on Hillary winning the Presidency. It seems he is currently bucking for a position as Secretary of Defense.

  • At 7:50 AM, Blogger All_I_Can_Stands said…

    I have heard the rumors about the Secretary of Defense, but not the Hillary part. He seems to be making a habit of putting his money on the wrong horse if that is true.

  • At 10:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

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