The Logic Lifeline

A logical approach to sorting out world events. Where logic, opinion and speculation are combined to produce a reasoned, but entertaining reading experience. The unofficial hometown conservative blog of Woodridge, Il

Monday, August 14, 2006

Hezbollah and Israel both claim victory - is it possible?

ABC news with Charles (formally known as Charlie) Gibson did a report on the different sides claiming victory in the month-long war. Arguments were made for Israel, Hezbollah, or Lebanon being the victors. Hezbollah claims victory because they persevered against Israel for a month without being completely wiped out. Israel claims victory because they pushed Hezbollah back 18 miles further away from their border than they had been at the start of the war. Some claim victory for Lebanon because they now have an opportunity to start fresh and strengthen their government's authority. These arguments come from a lack of understanding about what winning really is. Nobody won the war - it ended in a ceasefire, not a surrender. Ceasefires do not win wars - one side's acceptance of unconditional surrender makes that side the victor in any conflict. Look at all the great wars throughout history that ended with a clear-cut victor. Those wars were always decided not by ceasefires, but by surrender of one army to another. This is a well-understood rule of warfare. So why is ABC (and several others) making such a big deal about who actually won this war? My guess is that since Israel did actually gain ground in the conflict, and Hezbollah gained nothing, many would like to give Hezbollah credit for something, so they pose the idea of both sides being victors. Or maybe some people think victory consists of laying down your weapons and agreeing to stop fighting. In that case, I guess France was a great victor over Germany in WWII.

9 Comments:

  • At 1:48 AM, Blogger SkyePuppy said…

    You've gotta remember that the people claiming victory for both sides are the same people who don't want children's sports to keep score and who don't want schools to issue grades.

    When everybody is a winner ("turn that frown upside-down!), then everybody can be happy, and nobody will want to fight anymore. Kum-ba-ya...

     
  • At 7:05 AM, Blogger Malott said…

    The only way Israel wins is if Hezbollah is disarmed by the UN and a strong democratic Lebanese government.

    Does anyone think this will happen?

     
  • At 9:06 AM, Blogger Joe Smoe: American Citizen said…

    Malott said...
    The only way Israel wins is if Hezbollah is disarmed by the UN and a strong democratic Lebanese government.

    Does anyone think this will happen?

    7:05 AM


    This did not happen and now it is like a couple of High School kids claiming victory for some BS school yard fight.

    Face it, Israel with all the best weapons that the U.S. has to offer has crushed any and all opposition in the past and this time WAY underestimated the opposition and got it's ass kicked. Now, Lebennon lies in ruin,a friendly government is about to go under and the people have been radicalized against Israel and America. There will be no peace now. The only thing to do is sit back and wait for the next round of hostilities. The Islamic world is laughing at us and Israel again....another Bush Blunder.ie "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" where you claim victory when it is just the opposite.

     
  • At 9:58 AM, Blogger Return to Westernesse said…

    Joe,

    The Islamic world always laughs at us and Israel, because they think they are always the victors, no matter what the reality is. And once again, a "school yard fight," as you put it, between Israel and Hezbollah, thousands of miles away, instigated by a terrorist group kidnapping soldiers and lobbing bombs into civilian areas, is touted as "another Bush blunder." Makes sense to me.

     
  • At 11:18 AM, Blogger THE RIGHT WING AGENDA said…

    Return to Westernesse said...
    Joe,

    The Islamic world always laughs at us and Israel, because they think they are always the victors, no matter what the reality is. And once again, a "school yard fight," as you put it, between Israel and Hezbollah, thousands of miles away, instigated by a terrorist group kidnapping soldiers and lobbing bombs into civilian areas, is touted as "another Bush blunder." Makes sense to me.

    9:58 AM


    What planet are you from??????

    You missed the total piont of that guys post.....or were you ignoring it and making excuses as now all can see that Bush's attempt at remaking the Mid East is a verifiable FAILURE...what excuse do you have for that or will you ignore the key facts and focus on my shoddy grammer...typical GOP Parrot???

    oh yeah..."thank you mr. president....thank you for screwing up everything"!!!

     
  • At 12:50 PM, Blogger Joe Smoe: American Citizen said…

    Return to Westernesse said...
    Joe,

    The Islamic world always laughs at us and Israel, because they think they are always the victors, no matter what the reality is. And once again, a "school yard fight," as you put it, between Israel and Hezbollah, thousands of miles away, instigated by a terrorist group kidnapping soldiers and lobbing bombs into civilian areas, is touted as "another Bush blunder." Makes sense to me.

    9:58 AM


    Alright Pal if I can't make any sense to you maybe this article by Pat Buchanan (this guy is so far right he makes all you GOP/ Bush supporters here look liberal) will make it crystal clear for you and he even makes some good predictions.

    Olmert's war – and the next one
    Pat Buchanan

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51529

     
  • At 7:07 PM, Blogger Return to Westernesse said…

    RWA,

    When have I ever focused on your "shoddy grammer [sic]" rather than the substance of your arguments? It's not your grammar that I take issue with; it's your ludicrous statements.

     
  • At 7:19 PM, Blogger Return to Westernesse said…

    Joe,

    I read Buchanan's article that you recommended. Just because someone is way to the right doesn't mean I can't disagree with him, and I do on this issue and several others.

     
  • At 7:54 PM, Blogger LASunsett said…

    Joe,

    //Israel with all the best weapons that the U.S. has to offer has crushed any and all opposition in the past and this time WAY underestimated the opposition and got it's ass kicked.//

    Actually, from a military assessment standpoint, Israel did not get its ass kicked. It didn't succeed in its objectives, but they did not lose this war. They clearly got the better of Hezbollah, for now. Hezbollah's only real claim is they were not defeated. But they did not beat Israel, they withstood Israel. There is a difference.

    One mistake Israel made was not buying bunker buster bombs and using them.

    //Lebennon lies in ruin,a friendly government is about to go under and the people have been radicalized against Israel and America.//

    Lebanon was NOT a friendly government and they were already radicalized against Israel and America. Maybe not as much as Iran, Syria, and others. But make no mistake they didn't like us or the Israelis before all of this blew up. This war did not instigate that feeling, it was there before, and it will be there afterward.

    You really have got to take your name off of those MoveOn.Org mailing lists.

     

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